List of pedigrees Bland of Northern Neck Va. Nicholas of Roundway Hester of Fleming Co Ky Thruston Author's DNA match comparisons  |
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| The following connections are reported by various web sites, like 'Mathematical', as BE1883 requires misinterpretation. While there may not have been a Picot de Saye alive at the time of the Conquest, he may have been a cousin/kinsman rather than an ancestor of the William who married Agnes de Grentmesnil. So top section is shown as legend to provide a link for the Isabel who married twice into families shown elsewhere on this website. |
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| Sa30 =31 =33. Robert de Saye b c 1000 | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Sa29 =30 =32 | Picot de Lascelles de Saye b c 1022 Sai Ome Normandy d aft 1092 sheriff of Cambridge
m Hugolina de Gernon b 1026 Saye Normandy dau of Robert de Gernon and Agnes =�Connor of Connaught |  |
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| Sa28 =29 =31 | Robert FitzPicot de Saye, Lord of Clun b c 1040 Sai Ome Normandy d before 1098 Guiden Morden Cambridge
m Adeloyes b 1035 Clun |
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| Sa27 =28 =30 | Henry FitzPicot
de Saye, Lord of Clun b c 1065 Clun d before 1121
m x of Salop This Henry is reported by 'Mathematical' to be father of the William de Saye who married Agnes de Grentmesnil see below and of ... |
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| Sa26 =27 =29 | Elias or Ingelgram Ingram de Saye, Lord of Clun b c 1095 d before 1166 | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Sa25 =26 =28 | Isabel de Saye, Baroness of Clun d 1199 |
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| m1 William FitzAlan Fi25 =26 =28, lord of Oswestry, Sheriff of Shropshire d 1160 | -1 William FitzAlan, lord of Oswestry and Clun, Sheriff of Shropshire b 1162 d 1212-13 | -1-1 William FitzAlan d 1213/4
m Mary dau of Thomas de Erington
-1-2 John FitzAlan, lord of Oswestry and Clun, Sheriff of Shropshire b c 1164, d 1239 m1 Isabel de Albini dau of William de Albini, 3rd Earl of Arundel |
-1-1-1 William FitzAlan dsp
-1-2-1 John FitzAlan, 6th Earl of Arundel b 14.09.1246, d 18.03.1271/2 m Isabel de Mortimer Mo22=28 a 1300, dau of Sir Roger Mortimer of Wigmore |
-1-2-1-1 John FitzAlan, 5th Earl of Arundel d 1267 TCP Arundel confirms that John obtained Arundel Castle in 1243 but suggests that neither this John nor his son ever actually used the title Earl of Arundel and quoting Glover reports that his grandson was created Earl in 1289. BE1883 suggests that John became 'de facto' Earl following his obtaining the castle. We partially follow BE1883 and so differ on the numberings used by TCP.; m Maud de Verdon d 27.11.1283, dau of Theobald de Botiller by Roesia de Verdon she m2 Richard de AMUNDEVILLE |
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| m2 before 1166 Geoffrey de Vere d 1170 he m1 x wid of Waqrin FitzGerold | -1? Geoffrey de Vere a 1200 | -1-1 | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| m3. before 1188 William de Botreaux b c 1135 Botreaux Castle Cornwall d c 1220 | -1 Reynold de Botreaux b c 1175 d 1273
-2 William Boterell b 1172 Boscastle Cornwall m Sibella -3 Emma de Botreaux b 1175 Boscastle Cornwall d 1199 m Joscelyn de Valletort of North Tawton |
-1-1 William de Botreaux b c 12 d 1302
-3-1 Philip de Valletort b c 1210 North Tawton Devon d c 1259 m Joan FitzRoy de Cornwall b 1212 Winchester dau of Reginald FitzRoy de Cornwall |
-1-1-1
-3-1-1 John de Valletort of North Tawton |
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| Sa27-2. | Robert de Saye ?= Earl Gloucester | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| BE1883 starts off with .. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Sa29 =30. William de Say or Saye b c 1025, possibly a brother of Picot or Robert | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Sa28 =29 | William de Saye b c 1045 a 1066 | m Agnes de Grentmesnil dau of Hugh de Grentmesnil | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Sa27 =28 | William de Saye d 08.1144 the first
of this family reported by TCP Say
m Beatrix de Mandeville d 19.04.1197, dau of William de Mandeville |
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| Sa26 =27 | William de Saye dvp before 01.08.1177
m Aufrica dau of William 'the Lion', King of Scots |
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| Sa26=25. | Beatrix de Say d before 19.04.1197
m before 25.01.1184 Geoffrey FitzPiers, 1st/4th Earl of Essex d 02.10.1213, Justiciar |
Ma24-1 Geoffrey Mandeville, 2nd/5th Earl of Essex, Earl of Gloucester dsp 23.02.1215/6 �C
m1 Maud/Matilda dsp c1212, dau of Robert FitzWauter of Woodham Walter
m2 1214 Isabel, Countess of Gloucester dsp 14.10.1217, dau of William, Earl of Gloucester
Ma24-2 William Mandeville, 3rd/6th Earl of Essex d 08.01.1226/7 m before 18.11.1220 Christine dsp c17.06.1232, dau of Robert FitzWauter of Woodham Walter Ma24-3 Henry Mandeville, Dean of Wolverhampton Ma24 =25 Maud Mandeville, Countess of Essex d 27.08.1236 m1 Henry de Bohun, 1st Earl of Hereford, Constable of England d 01.06.1220 m2 Roger de Daunteseye of Dauntsey m2 by 29.05.1205 Aveline de Clare d c04.06.1225, dau of Roger de Clare, 3rd Earl of Hertford Ma24 John FitzGeoffrey FitzPiers of Shere, Sheriff of Yorkshire, Baron of Birkhampstead d 1256 m Isabel Bigod dau of Hugh Bigod, 3rd Earl of Norfolk BE1883 shows an intervening generation John FitzJohn who d 1258 but TCP FitzJohn shows that John FitzGeoffrey and Isabel were parents of ... Ma23-6 Joan FitzJohn d 04.04.1303s (shown by BP1934 Ormonde as granddau of the Earl of Essex, sis of John FitzJohn rather than his daughter. We follow BE1883 FitzJohn which shows this relationship because the dates seem slightly more consistent albeit not fully convincingly so. m Theobald, 1st Lord de Botiller d 26.09.1285 Ma24-6 Cecily FitzGeoffrey d before 29.06.1253 m Savary de Bohun of Midhurst d before 11.04.1246 Ma24 Hawise FitzGeoffrey de Mandeville d before 08.08.1247 m Reynold de Mohun, 5th of Dunster d 1256 |
Bo24 Humphrey de Bohun b 1208 d 24 Sep 1275 m Maud de Lusignan, dau of Ralph Count d'Eu Eu24 ?Fitzgeoffrey de Ewe and Alice d'Eu Ma23-1 John FitzJohn of Shere, Sheriff of Westmoreland, 1st Lord dsp c06.11.1275 m before 18.02.1258/9 Margery Basset d before 29.10.1271, dau of Sir Philip Basset of Wycombe, Justiciar Ma23-2 Richard FitzJohn of Shere, 2nd Lord dsp before 05.08.1297 m Emma d 26.01.1331/2 Ma23 Maud FitzJohn d 16/8.04.1301 m1 Sir Gerard de Furnivalle of Hallamshire dsp before 18.10.1261 m2 William de Beauchamp, 1st Earl of Warwick d 1298 Ma23-4 Isabel FitzJohn m Robert de Vipont of Appleby, Sheriff of Westmoreland b 1239, d 07.06.1264 Ma23-5 Aveline FitzJohn d c20.05.1274 m Walter de Burgh, Lord of Connaught, 1st Earl of Ulster d 28.07.1271 Mo23-1 Alice de Mohun Mo23-2 Lucy de Mohun Mo23-3 Isabel de Mohun Mo23 Sir John de Mohun m Joan de Ferrers had issue: |
Bo23 Humphrey de Bohun VI Eleanor de Briouze (Br23) (Alianore Braose) and co-heir of William de Braose, of Brecknock, Lord of Abergavenny, co-heir of her mother Eve/Eva Marshal, one of the five dau and co-heirs of William Marshal, Earl of Pembroke, sis of William Marshal, Surety to the Magna Charta. Bo23-2 Maud de Bohun, m1 Anselme Marshall/Mareschall, Earl of Pembroke, m2 Roger de Quincy Qu25, Earl of Winchester Bo23-3 Alice Bohun, married Roger Thony Bo23-4 _ de Bohun, 3rd dau m _ de Quincy Mo22 Sir John de Mohun m Eleanor FitzPiers had issue: |
Bo22-1 Agnes de Bohun Bo22 Humphrey VII de Bohun, Earl of Hereford b c 1249 d 1275 m Maud de Fiennes, daughter of Ingelram de Fiennes, Lord of Wendover Mo21-1 John de Mohun Mo21 Margaret de Mohun m Sir John de Cantilupe Ca21 ?Mo21-3 Joan de Mohun |
Bo21 Humphrey de Bohun, 4th Earl of Hereford+ b c 1276, d. 16 Mar 1321 m Elizabeth, dau of King Edward I wid of John, Count of Holland Ca20 Eleanor de Cantilupe m Thomas West (We2). |
Bo20-1 John de Bohun, b 23 Nov 1306, Pleshey Castle, Essex m1st Alice Fitzalan of Arundel about 11325 m2 Margaret Basset, d 20 Jan 1335 Bo20-2 Humphrey de Bohun IX Bo20 = Bo20-4 William de Bohun Earl of Northampton,b c 1312 m Elizabeth Badlesmere dau of Bartholomew de Badlesmere and his wife Margaret Clare Bo20-5 Edward de Bohun Bo20-6 Alianore Bohun, m1 James Butler, Earl of Ormonde, m2 Sir Thomas Dagworth, Lord Dagworth Bo20 Margaret Bohun, m Hugh de Courtenay Co20 son of the Earl of Devon Bo20-7 Agnes/Margaret de Bohun, Baroness Ferrers of Chartley. Bo20-8 Edmund de Bohun Bo20-9 Hugh de Bohun Bo20-10 Mary de Bohun Bo20-11 Isabella de Bohun We18 Thomas WEST 1st Baron West of Oakhanger We19 Thomas West b c 1312 d 3 Sep 1386 Terrington, Devonshire m Alice Fitzherbert, dau. of Reginald FitzHerbert of Midsomer Norton, Somerset, (of Magna Carta Surety descent and descendant of Charlemagne) and Lucy Peverell |
Co19 Elizabeth de Courtenay, m Sir Andrew Lutterell Lu19 We18 Thomas WEST (1st Baron West of Oakhanger We18-2 Eleanor West b c 1334 m c 1352 in Snitterfield, Warwickshie Sir Nicholas de Clifton |
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| Sa25-2 | Maud de Say b c 1170 d 28.03.1222
m William de Boeland of Buckland d 15.04.1216 |
+1 William was son of Hugh de Boeland of Buckland by Maud widow of Piers de Lutegareshale. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| 1 | Maud de Boeland
m William d'Averenches of Folkestone d 06.11.1230 |
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| 2 | Hawise de Boeland dsp 1226
m John de Boville |
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| 3 | Jean de Boeland d 16.11.1252
m1 Robert de Ferrers dsp 04.12.1225 |
fabpedigree.com shows as child:
-1 Eermentrude de Ferrers m1 Henry FitzGerold of Gainsborough m2 Robert Talbot |
-1-1 Alice Fitzgerald d aft 1270 m Robert de Lisle
-1-2 Robert Talbot |
-1-1-1 Sir Gerard de LISLE
-1-1-2 Elizabeth de LISLE -1-1-3 Robert de Lisle 1st Baron |
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| m2 Geoffrey d'Averenches b c 1200 a 11.1236 | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Sa26-2 | Geoffrey de Say d 19.05.1214 | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| m1 Alice or Lettice Maminot dau of Hugh Maminot, widow of Ralph de Cahaines | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| a. | William de Say dvp before 08.03.1197 | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| b. | Geoffrey de Say b c1155, d 1230§C | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| m1 Alice de Caisneto or Chesney dau of John de Caisneto | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| 1 | William de Saye of Sele d before 12.02.1271-2 | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| m1 Sibyl a 1250 | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| m2 Mary | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| A | William de Saye of Sele b 20.11.1253, d c16.09.1295 | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| m Elizabeth | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| i | Geoffrey de Saye, 1st Lord b c1281, d 1322 | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| m Idonea de Leyburne dau of William de Leyburne | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| a | Geoffrey de Saye, 2nd Lord b c1305, d 26.06.1359 | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| m Maud de Beauchamp d 28.07.1369, dau of Guy de Beauchamp, 2nd Earl of Warwick | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| 1 | William de Saye, 3rd Lord b 17.06.1340, d before 07.08.1375 | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| m Beatrice de Brewes dau of Thomas, Lord Brewes | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| A | William de Saye, 4th Lord b c1373, d 27.07.1382 | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| B | Elizabeth de Saye b 24.02.1365/6, dsp 08.07.1399 | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| m1 Sir John de Fallesle or Falvesley or Fawsley, Lord dsp 1392/3 | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| m2 before 11.1393 Sir William Heron, Lord of Saye d 30.10.1404 | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| 2 | Thomas de Saye d young | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| 3 | John de Saye d young | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| 4 | Idonea de Saye d c1384 | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| m John de Clinton, 3rd Lord of Maxtock d 06/8.09.1398 | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| 5 | Elizabeth de Saye dsp | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| m Thomas or John de Aldone | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| 6 | Joane de Saye | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| m1 Sir William Fiennes b 02.02.1331/2, d 30.11.1359 | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| One of their grandsons became Lord Saye and Sele. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| m2 Stephen de Valoines | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| b | Katherine de Say a 09.1355 | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| m c1320 John de St. John, 3rd Lord of Lageham d 08.04.1349 | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| c | Juliane de Say d 20.02.1329 | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| m Roger de Northwode, 2nd Lord b c1307, d 05.11.1361 | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| d+ | other issue - Roger, Ralph | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| ii | daughter | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| m John de Sudeley, 1st Lord d by 18.04.1336 | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| m2 div Margery Briwerre sister of William Briwerre | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| m2 Alice de Vere d 28.10.1217, dau of Aubrey III de Vere, 1st Earl of Oxford | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Sources:
1 BE1883 Saye or Say, TCP Say, BP1934 Saye and Sele + TCP Essex.
2 'Mathematical'
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