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Fiennes 2: Fiennes of Dacre, Fiennes of Saye and Sele

Sir William Fiennes b 02.02.1331/2, d 30.11.1359 m 12.11.1351 Joan de Saye dau of Geoffrey de Saye, 2nd Lord

1.

Sir William Fiennes, Sheriff of Surrey and Sussex m Elizabeth Battisford dau of William Battisford

A.

Sir Roger Fiennes bpt 14.09.1384, d before 18.11.1449 m 13Aug1409 Elizabeth Holland, Brackley, Northamptonshire

i.

Richard Fiennes of Hurstmonceaux, 1st/7th Lord Dacre 'of the South' d 1484 The Dacre family offers the leading case in peerage law involving issues of conflict arising from land tenure and representation of blood. Joan Dacre, according to modern peerage doctrine, was the seventh Baroness Dacre. She married in 1446 Sir Richard Fiennes. Another sister, Phillippa Dacre, married Robert Fiennes, brother of Sir Richard, but she died without issue within her grandfather Dacre’s time. Sir Richard Fiennes was hereditary keeper of Herstmonceaux Castle, an office which descended in the family until the execution of the ninth baron. By patent of 7 Nov 1458 King Henry VI accepted him as Lord Dacre, and by two writs in 1459 and 1482 Fiennes was summoned to Parliament as Baron Dacre. In 1473 the King made the final award of the lands of the sixth Baron Dacre between the heir male, Humphrey Dacre, the younger of Joan’s two uncles; and the heir general, Richard Fiennes, in right of his wife Joan Dacre. Most of the estates went to the heir male with remainder to the heir general while the peerage went to Richard Fiennes in right of his wife. Peerage lawyers have claimed that Richard Fiennes’s summons to parliament created a new barony; for, though his wife was a peeress in her own right, his summons was not a courtesy one. J. Horace Round held that the award of 1473 assigning the heir general and her husband precedence of the old barony, over that of the heir male, was a recognition of his wife’s accession to the original barony. m Joane Dacre, Baroness Dacre d 1486, dau of Thomas Dacre, younger of Dacre

a.

Sir John Fiennes b 1447, d 1483 m 19.11.1466 Alice FitzHugh dau of Henry FitzHugh, 6th Lord continued her mother's tradition of horse breeding as did her son Thomas

1

Thomas Fiennes, 2nd/8th Lord Dacre 'of the South' b 1471/2, d 09.09.1534 continued his father's tradition of horse breeding as did his daughter Mary m 1492 Anne Bourchier a 09.1530, dau of Sir Humphrey Bourchier

A

Sir Thomas Fiennes b 1495, dvp 26.10.1528 m 1514 Jane Sutton dau of Edward Sutton, 2nd Lord Dudley

i

Thomas Fiennes, 3rd/9th Lord Dacre 'of the South' b 1516, d 29.06.1541

m Mary Neville dau of George Nevill, 5th Lord Abergavenny

a

George Gregory Fiennes, 4th/10th Lord Dacre 'of the South' dspl 25.09.1594

m Anne Sackville d 14.05.1595, dau of Sir Richard Sackville of Buckhurst

b

Margaret Fiennes, Baroness Dacre b 1541, d 16.03.1611

m Samson Lennard of Chevening, Sheriff of Kent d 20.09.1615

Their eldest son became 12th Lord Dacre.

B

Mary Fiennes d 1533 continued her father's tradition of horse breeding as did her son Henry Norris.and Granddaughter Catherine Norris m Sir Henry Norreys d 14.05.1536

2

Anne Fiennes d 10.09.1497

m1 William Berkeley, Marquess of Berkeley b 1426, dsp 14.02.1491-2

m2 Sir Thomas Brandon

3+

other issue

b.

Sir Thomas Fiennes d 1526 had issue

m Anne Ursewick

c.

William Fiennes

d.

Elizabeth Fiennes

m John Clinton, Lord of Maxstoke Maxtock

e.

Richard Fiennes

f.

Roger Fiennes d 1541

m

m Elizabeth Echyngham dau of Sir Thomas de Echyngham

1

Anne Fienes John de Windsor Wi14-5 Tudor shows her as dau of br Sir Thomas Anne Ursewick above

ii.

Margaret Fiennes b c1414, d after 1446

m Nicholas Carew

iii.

Robert Fiennes

m 1448 Philippa Dacre

iv.

James Fiennes d 04.06.1450

B.

James Fiennes, 1st Lord Saye and Sele b 1394, d 04.07.1450/1, Treasurer

m Emmeline Cromer of Willingham

i.

William Fiennes, 2nd Lord Saye and Sele d Barnet 14.04.1471, Admiral

m Margaret Wykeham d 1477, dau of William Wykeham of Broughton Castle

a.

Henry Fiennes, 3rd Lord Saye and Sele d 01.08.1476

m Anne Harcourt dau of Sir Richard Harcourt

1

Richard Fiennes, 4th Lord Saye and Sele b 12.04.1471, d 1501

m Elizabeth Crofts dau of Richard Croft

A

Edward Fiennes, de jure 5th Lord Saye and Sele b c1502, d 1528

BP1934 Saye and Sele reports that Edward did not use the title which was not formally reconfirmed until 1603 when his grandson took up the title again.

m Margaret Danvers dau of Sir John Danvers of Dantsay

i

Richard Fiennes of Broughton, de jure 6th Lord Saye and Sele b 11.09.1521, d 1573

m Ursula Fermour dau of Richard Fermour of Easton Neston

a

Sir Richard Fiennes, 7th Lord Saye and Sele b c1557, d 1613

m1 Constance Kingsmill dau of Sir W. Kingsmill of Sidmanton

'Tudor' shows only Constance as wife of Richard but BP1934, which does not report Richard's daughters, shows Elizabeth also. It is assumed that Constance was mother of all the children.

William Fiennes b 1582

1

William Fiennes, 1st Viscount Saye and Sele b 28.05.1582 Broughton Castle, d 11/14.04.1662, attended New College Oxford. During the latter part of James I's reign Saye was one of the most prominent opponents of the court. During the personal rule of Charles I, Saye devoted time and money to schemes of colonisation: his motives were not just financial, but also religious and political. In 1630 he established, in conjunction with Robert Greville, 2nd Baron Brooke, John Pym, and others from the group of Puritan entrepreneurs, a company for the settlement of the Providence Island colony on what is now Isla de Providencia in the Caribbean Sea, part of the Archipelago of San Andrés, Providencia and Santa Catalina, a department of Colombia.

m Elizabeth Temple dau of John Temple of Stow

A

James Fiennes, 2nd Viscount Saye and Sele d 15.03.1673-4

m Frances Cecil d 1684, dau of Edward Cecil, Viscount Wimbledon

i

Elizabeth Fiennes d 28.03.1674

m John Twisleton of Barley d 14.12.1682

Their great-great-grandson Thomas successfully claimed the title of Baron Saye and Sele.

ii

Frances Fiennes

m Andrew Ellis

a

Cicely Ellis dsp 22.07.1715

m1 15.03.1672-3 Sir Richard Langley d 08.02.1677-8

m2 William Fiennes

B

Nathaniel Fiennes d 16.12.1669, Colonel, Speaker of Cromwell's House of Lords

m1 11.08.1636 Elizabeth Eliot dau of Sir John Eliot of Port Eliot

i

William Fiennes, 3rd Viscount Saye and Sele b c1641, d 09.12.1698

m1 1670 Mary Fiennes d 23.10.1676, dau of Richard Fiennes @@ below

a

Nathaniel Fiennes, 4th Viscount Saye and Sele b 23.10.1676, d unm 02.01.1709-10

m2 07.09.1685 Katharine Walker dsp, dau of John Walker

m2 Frances Whitehead

ii+

other issue - Anne, Frances, Mary, Celia

C

John Fiennes d 1722, Colonel

m Susannah Hobbs dau of Thomas Hobbs of Great Anwell

i

Lawrence Fiennes, 5th Viscount Saye and Sele d unm 27.12.1742

ii+

other sons dsp and daughters

D

Richard Fiennes of Ixworth

m1 Margaret Burrell dau of Andrew Burrell of Isle of Ely

i

Richard Fiennes d 1722, rector of Akeley

m 30.10.1705 Penelope Chamberlayne dau of George Chamberlayne of Wardington

a

Richard Fiennes, 6th Viscount Saye and Sele bpt 08.07.1716, dsp 29.07.1781

m 13.11.1753 Christobella Tyrrol d 23.07.1789, dau of Sir Thomas Tyrrol or Tyrrell, 2nd Bart, by Dorothy Eyre

b

Vere Alicia Fiennesapparently of this generation

m Richard Wykeham of Swalcliffe d 1751

ii

Mary Fiennes d 23.10.1676

m 1670 William Fiennes, 3rd Viscount Saye and Sele d 09.12.1698 @@ above

iii+

other sons dsp and daughters

m2 Susanna Cobb dau of William Cobb of Adderbury

E

Bridget Fiennes m Theophilus Clinton Fiennes, 4th Earl of Lincoln, son of the 3rd Earl of Lincoln. d 22.05.1667

F

Constance Fiennes bur 02.09.1692

m 07.03.1637 Sir Francis Boynton, 2nd Bart of Barmston d 09.09.1695

G

Susannah Fiennes presumably the Susannah who married ...

m1 Thomas Erle, younger of Charborough b c1621, dvp

m2 Robert Hawley

H

Elizabeth Fiennes presumably the Elizabeth who married ...

m Richard Norton of Southwick d 05.1681/?91(There may be a confusion of two of this name!)

I

Anne Fiennes presumably the Anne who married ...

m 1649 Sir Charles Wolseley, 2nd Bart of Wolseley d 09.10.1714

2

Anne Fiennes

3

Ursula Fiennes

m2 Elizabeth Coddingham dau of Henry Coddingham

b

Ursula Fiennes probably of this generation or one after

m Sir Edward Marrow of Berkswell or Berkeswell d 1632

ii

Elizabeth Fiennes

m Francis Barentine

B

Richard Fiennes probably of this generation

i

Alice Fiennes

m1 John Horn of Winchester

m2 Sir John St. Barbe, Bart of Broadlands & Ashington, Sheriff of Hampshire dsp 07.09.1723

C

Elizabeth Fiennes

m 1522 William Danvers d 20.06.1544

ii.

Elizabeth Fiennes a 1459

m William Crowmer

2.

John Fiennes bpt 20.07.1356, d 1379

3.

Robert Fiennes

Sources: BP1934 Saye and Sele, BP1934 Hampden, 'Tudor'
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